  Short Stories
This week: Edited by: Vivian  
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6. Ask & Answer
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So many comments came in about my last issue that I decided to use some of them with answers and comments from me. Stay tuned for more about details.
Viv
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Details about Details
I appreciate all feedback, and sometimes replies and questions show me where something or somethings weren't clear enough. That's why I'm using reader comments to help clarify the message I wanted to make about the need of details in short stories, or in any type of writing.
Voxxylady  wrote: Hi Viv, I think the "no extra detail" rule is taken too far by some authors. We can't sit back and say if a reader isn't getting enough of something, it's their fault, not ours. It's our job to fuel their imagination. Readers have no job. They're paying for our "service" of creating a world for them and they can easily put the story down and find someone who gives them what they want.
Careful description won't take away from the experience -- readers will see things differently than described if they wish (mine do at times) and that's good, but the setting still needs to be there, no matter how short the story. I think it's more often a case of lazy writers than of lazy readers.
I don't remember putting all the burden on readers. In fact, writers must have well-developed characters and plots in their writing, but unnecessary details shouldn't be included. Our job, as writers, is to provide enough material to allow readers to have a running movie in their heads, without boring them with extra expository that doesn't move the story forward. In high school and college English and composition classes, unnecessary wording is called padding.
I'm not sure how the "no extra detail" rule can be taken too far. If too many details are deleted, then we're no longer talking about extra detail but about needed detail. Too much detail and too little detail are two different ideas, and both endanger an otherwise good story.
Shelly Quade  mentions the author describing a character. I think your editorial in this issue had a point - to an extent. It seems to me that the author DOES need to describe the character, at least a bit. For example, in Curious George, there is "the man in the yellow hat." If the author gives nothing more than a name, it can frustrate me as a reader b/c I feel like maybe the author hasn't bothered to get to know his character well enough. I agree that a full paragraph description about each character is unnecessary. But if I'm reading a story & hear the name "Tim," with no description, I'm probably going to think it's a male. That makes the story pretty different, if the author imagines the character to be a female.
Giving some needed description is different from giving unneeded, extraneous description. All details should add to the characterization or to the movement of the plot. Describing the character as "the man in the yellow hat" moves the story forward: It is used instead of a name. However, if the author wrote "the man in the yellow hat pulled low on his forehead and covering his thick, wavy, black hair," too much detail has been given. The point that unneeded detail should be left out is my point, not that all detail and description should be omitted.
rmoore1016 brought up a question: I enjoyed reading my first issue. The feature concerning short stories was interesting. The trick of being sparse with your short story and only including relevant words is knowing which words, I think. As Samuel Clemens supposedly said, I read it somewhere, the difference between "Lightning in a bottle" and a "Lightning Bug" is the difference between any word and the right word. My question is HOW DO YOU KNOW WHICH WORDS TO PICK?
Look at what is needed to develop characters and what is needed to develop and move the plot forward. Another thing to remember is to show the readers what is happening, rather than telling them. Often we use more words to show than to tell, but the words are necessary to develop the story line. We need to look at the context of our words, too. Ones which don't fit and mean exactly what we mean should be changed or deleted.
I've included more in the feedback section.
Thank you for your feedback. I hope I was able to use comments and questions well enough to clarify my thoughts.
One of our W.Com members (StephBee - House Targaryen  ) has a short story contest going in her off line blog: http://p219.ezboard.com/ftherogerhowarthphotogallerycommunityfrm5 . Anyone interested?
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More Comments from Readers
Arthur 
I really enjoyed this newsletter. I just want to point out that a lot of the younger generation( I am 45 years old) always say to me why read when it will be on film in a few months to a year. I think we have raised a generation of people who are laking in imagination and it's our own fault.
You are right of course, the whole point to reading is to expand your horizons and use your own imagination to picture the story. I generally read authors who are good at giving just enough detail to allow this to take place.
Keep up the good work.
I had someone ask me how we can get more people to read. The only way, really, is for parents and grandparents to read to young children from the time they can listen. Now, we, as authors, need to write material that people will want to read.
Mavis Moog
Thank you very much for featuring the wonderful stories from my contest, "Invalid Item" .
The standard of writing is very high, and it's a great privilege to read, and judge such a fine crop, each round.
Every one of the stories you mentioned are entertaining and well-written. I hope the newsletter readers enjoy them as much as I did. If not, maybe it's time to write a better story and submit it.
I was glad to use stories from your contest, Mavis, and in this issue, I used some entries posted for the latest competition.
puravida
Vivian, this newsletter concerning imagination for readers is brilliant! I love `characters´ and quite frequently when I write, my characters are the story. Without a doubt, the colour of hair and eyes are the least important. I rarely comment on the physical aspect of my characters anymore unless it is important to the plot. I´d much prefer to describe my character from the inside to the outside. This also helps the reader identify with the character in a way that hair and eye colour never will. How the character thinks or feels, we can relate to. Besides, what does beautiful, handsome, incredible, outrageous, wonderful mean?
Your newsletter will have `reader´ and `writer´ both thinking. THANK YOU!
Puravida
I'm glad you realize the importance of the characters in any story and inadequate information given by some vague words. I appreciate your sharing, too.
faithjourney
Thank you so much for this wonderful newsletter on details, and the responsibility of the reader having imagination. My philosophy is that if you don't want to use your imagination, then watch TV! Reading is for those that like to think, imagine, and have some freedom to create the world you present in their own minds.
A story, whether a short story or novel, is a joint cooperation between author and reader. Both need to bring their best to the communication, starting with the author writing a good story. Then the reader needs to be able to "see" the story in his/her head. If the writer didn't do a good job, the reader can't. If the reader doesn't have an imagination that allows the mental movie, then no matter what the author writes, it won't work. There are people who can understand non-fiction and technical writings and enjoy those, but who cannot "get into" fiction. Thankfully this world offers both kinds of writing for both kinds of readers.
Gunny
In my reviews of short stories I sometimes comment that the lead character is too flat, or that I cannot 'see' the setting. Other times, those things are not important because, the setting and characters are so familiar to everyone, it's not necessary to elaborate. While it is true that the author is restricted as to the number of words he uses, this is all the more reason why every single word should count. The way the characters dress, their manner of speech, the smell of rain on hot asphalt, the noise of a nearby waterfall, how people treats their pets, how they eat, all are ways to describe with a few effective words, without long descriptive phrases telling the reader what they are looking at. But, show the reader you must otherwise he/she is reading about flat cardboard characters on an unlit stage. If you want to sell your work to the general public, you have to better than that.
Excellent, your comments are so true and direct. Thank you.
I received so many comments, and I want to acknowledge them all, even if I can't reply to each one individually. Thank you for all the feedback. I will post an answer if there is a question, though.
Ms Kimmie
Hey Viv,
Good topic this week (about the reader being an interactive part of the short story). Keep up the great editorials. Even your fellow editors love 'em! Smile
kim_
Dear Vivian, thank you for your insightful newsletter about imagination. I am a writer and a reader. As a writer of short stories sometimes I do not want to put in all of the details or I feel it has enough to say what I wanted to say. As a reader I am happy not to have all the details because if it is written well enough my mind will jump right in and show me the scene regardless.
Thanks
Kim
larryp
"Readers need to bring an important trait to reading: imagination. Through imagination, they can "see" the story, characters, plot, conflict, actions. An author shouldn't need to give all small, unnecessary descriptions for a reader to know what is happening. As a reader myself, I enjoy allowing my imagination to bring the story to life."
Great words Viv. This is the thrill of reading and why I enjoy reading.
Helen McNicol
A great newsletter. I have found I tend to rely on the imagination of my reader too much sometimes, but this is where WDC is a great platform for experimentation in this. The review process certainly highlights this, and if I get the same comment from several readers then I know it's my responsibility, not an error on the part of the reader.
mrstyx
Readers need imagination. It is however the writer's job to create a relatable and interesting story line that doesn't substitute ideas to boost their word count. Not enough writers go back and word count their most used words and try to at least pull a thesaurus out. Which, along with the dictionary should be a writers best friend. And yes I said word more times than I had wanted. Cheers!
Excellent points. Thank you.
IGWOOTEN
Hey Vivian,
Great advice to readers and writers alike. For something to be truly creative readers/writers must work together. There are as many different tastes and opinions as there are books. Readers and writers are quite often divided over inconsequential things. Hence, there will be times when only the reader and/or writer can determine what is best for themselves.
IGW
Zeke
As a writer, I agree that it would be nice if readers were more educated, but in the real world readers rule. While we writers may be proud of what we produce, only the readers' reactions count in the end.
Zeke
hbar
Very good newsletter. The best and most helpful yet.
Thanks.
April Sunday
Recently, I read of a form of protest going on in Scotland. Well, that's a stretch. The concern is ongoing RE: short story length being too short these days. Most times, if we begin with a short word count of less than 4K, encounter others with not more than 2.5K and at the same time be thrilled with those memorable 20+ pg short stories in anthologies --- then we revert to exactly what you're indicating here. What is a girl to do? Agree to less physical detail. While fat is hefty and bimbo is provocative, readers and authors both can fake it into a middle ground when they edit their word counts. Another nuance for short story qualifications is the way stories sound. Thus, readers aren't on board for a job (their reading) and authors are having the time of their lives creating this fascinating twain. Don't you think so perhaps? When reading becomes a job, I quit the story.
Since breathing itself is a job, a task that we perform even if involuntarily, I would say most of life, of living is a job (task) of some sort.
Anne Light
Dear Vivian, as usual I enjoyed your newsletter for your insight and concise style. This time, I'd like to ask you to cover a topic: the telling detail. I agree with you that too many details overload the story. My personal pet peeve is the eye color of the heroine. I've hardly ever found a story where it has any bearing on the plot. But maybe, you could give examples of details that do help the understanding - and how to find them? Just an idea.
If a description is needed for a detective to catch the bad guy, then eye color, etc. is a must. If the narrator wants the reader to "see" a woman's hair glittering in the sunlight, he might give the color. If the color of the eyes adds to the development of the character, it's needed, but one shouldn't dwell upon it forever.
In a young adult book I'm writing now, I mention the bright blue eyes of a boy in the story and then go on. It's a brief mention, not an extensive expository.
I included the following in hopes that some of the readers will visit this person's port and welcome a new member:
Henrietta
Thanks Editor for your encouragement!, that's all I need to get started. Here's a short story about myself.
"Born precisely 50 years ago, I have always loved to write as far as I can remember at least since I was 13. I have been a great English and Literature student and I got prices in secondary school (like we call it in Africa). Little did I know that I was a great writer until I met a friend who is a journalist and who told me I write very well. It was exciting and interesting to hear 'cos no one had ever told me that before. I then took it up as a challenge - I commenced the publishing of a monthly newsletter to Christian prisoners in the State where I live, this interest came up from my being a volunteer prison worker. Yet, I believe I still have a lot to learn to become a more professional and prolific writer. I live in Lagos, Nigeria and I'm a single mum of 3 teenage children.
Henrietta
Welcome, Henrietta.
Cherokeescribe
Dear Vivian;
Thanks so much for including my short, short story, "Attaining Absolution," in your editor's picks! I was surprised and pleased to receive comments on the story from a fellow writer who said he found it in this newsletter. Thanks again for choosing my story, and for your hard work to put out an excellent, informative newsletter. ~ Heart ...RK
Haloid
I know this is the short stories letter but how much of this pertains to novels?
Unnecessary details don't belong in any writing, whether short story, article, essay, or short story. Anything that doesn't add to the theme, plot, message of the work doesn't belong. That's not just my opinion, either. Most conferences, workshops, and classes on writing I've taken for the past twenty years promotes that idea.
Lornda 
Hi Viv,
Thanks for the great tips on making a short story even more solid for the reader by using their imagination. Also, thanks for highlighting one of my stories.
Lornda Flower3
scribbler
I completely agree with this week's newsletter. I often receive reviews from readers asking "what exactly happened" or "I don't get it. You need to say exactly what went on" after posting a story. I usually eliminate useless details from my stories, and even go as far as leaving the reader hanging with an ending, so they may draw their own conclusions. Readers are not stupid, but they may be lazy. I for one will not let the reading of one of my stories become an activity that uses little or no brain activity. Decide for yourself what the story means to you. And if you are going to send me some smart little reply on how it is my duty to be clear and "straight forward" I say to you, ever pick up Hemingway?
Whoops, that turned into a rant. Je suis desole.
Thanks again for the great read.
bookgraham
Thank you for this newsletter. It was helpful.
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Thank you for joining me again, and thanks so much for the terrific feedback. Let's plan on meeting back here again next month, and please support the other editors of the Short Stories Newsletter.
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Short Stories: February 13, 2008 Issue [#2218]
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