I felt the need to respond to some of your points in your article “Is God Just Pretend?” - a rhetorical question, if ever I heard one!
You claim that “Many people of faith have never taken the time to really even investigate their beliefs, they just accepted them...after all that's why it's called faith.”
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you on that. There are too many people in this world who do not have a sufficient basis for believing in God. They do so because of upbringing, emotion, tradition, fear, or for social reasons.
However, there are also a significant amount of people, like me, who do have a basis for their beliefs. Theirs is the result of careful investigation, experience and contemplation. I think the definition of “Faith” that you are familiar with is the traditional one, and it is flawed. The Bible says that “Faith follows the thing heard,” meaning that faith is built on experience, knowledge, and evidence, not emotions and wishes!
You proudly proclaim yourself a “Libertarian.” In doing so, you demonstrate a niaivity far worse than the gullible religious masses that you criticize. Do you really believe that you trundle through life with your thoughts uncontaminated by falsehoods or coercions? Do you celebrate birthdays? Christmas? Are you persuaded by the left or right in politics? Do you have prejudices? Stop fooling yourself, thinking that you are in full control of your life. The fact that you are so irked by religious people to the point of spending hours publishing lengthy articles on the subject indicates that you have a fixation which is not just your own. When did you develop such an aversion to religion? Were you wronged or bullied by religious people in the past? The truth is, none of us are absolutely free to choose our own paths. We are all subject to the whims of society, to one degree or another.
You say “I believe people should have the right to believe in anything they want to believe in” and I absolutely agree with you. In fact, it is their God-given right to believe what they want (free will!). However, if there is a creator, and he has set the standard of right and wrong, then there may be consequences for some …. one day.
You describe religious people as obsessive and stubborn. Yet these traits can be equally applied to atheists. In fact the most angry and passionate people I have ever encountered were not religious at all, they were evolutionists or atheists,
Besides, if someone has irrefutable evidence that the cat is black, why should they capitulate and admit it is white, just because another bunch of loud people insist that they do?
You say that “There is no amount of evidence that will persuade a religious person from their beliefs. You also speak of knowledge being the important factor. But whose knowledge? You probably believe in Extra-terrestrials, Black holes, string theory and dark matter, even though these are unscientific, untested, unproven theories or wishes. Knowledge is fact, not theory. I, and millions of others like me are keen to study the evidence, scientific, historical, archaeological (and scriptural). That is one of the ways that we came to the decision that God exists. I have looked into Darwin's teachings, Dawkins claims, Freuds ideas, and I have listened in depth to the claims of the top evolutionists in the world. I have also read the Bible several times, investigated other religions, and dismissed them. Can you say the same? Have you researched both sides, read from all angles?
Human beings are not born atheists. From the moment a child can reason, they are aware that the world around them is complex, special, designed. With no other input, they would come to the conclusion that life was created. Why? Because life teaches them that complex systems do not appear from nowhere, that complexity equals intelligence, that beauty and comfort are compatible with the human needs, that the earth is so intricately designed to accommodate life that the coincidences required to bring it all together and sustain it are of an impossible magnitude. Incidentally, there has never been non-religious society in history. On this point you may be interested to hear two quotes from men I think you would respect. Karl Marx, a staunch atheist and hater of religious organizations stated that - ”Man is stimulus driven and can only relate to that which he has encountered. He cannot imagine beyond that,” Likewise, Albert Einstein wrote, “The only knowledge is experience.” Yet, mankind has always believed in an invisible creator. How do you explain this paradox?
I agree with you that most religious people stick with the beliefs that they are born with. However, the Bible actually encourages people to question everything and to challenge that which is false. The Bible predicted that, in our time, religious people (including Christians) would behave so badly that the Bible itself would get the blame and people would turn away from God. You may be surprised to learn that in the last book of the Bible, Revelation, which deals with the future (our age) the institution that God condemns the most severely and which is targetted for annihilation, is mass religion! What does that tell you about God?
You say “Through using logic and reason, and applying science and math we replaced caveman logic.” Incidentally, the correct term is “Maths.” With respect, there are no such things as “cavemen.” Anthropologists admit that the depictions of them in museums and literature are pure imagination and conjecture, without any evidence. But, as far as science and maths are concerned, our modern era is seeing a revolution in religious thinking among the educated. Why? Because science is uncovering the marvels and complexities of the universe and the earth and life. More and more scientists are changing their minds and accepting the existence for God. Did you know that Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin, and many other giants of science all believed in God? Not necessarily in the Judaeo-Christian God, but a creator nonetheless. Are you humbled by their faith? Do you question them also? Can you look down on their intellect and tell them that they were fools?
Anthony Flew – Emeritus Professor of Philosophy was once considered by many to be the champion of atheist debate. He published many books and peer-reviewed articles dismissing God, and he gave many lectures which were always packed. Yet, later in his life, he changed his mind and wrote - “I have been persuaded that it is simply out of the question that the first living matter evolved out of dead matter and then developed into an extraordinary creature.”
My wife is one of Jehovah's Witnesses. They number over 8,000,000 people worldwide, in all races tribes and cultures. They come from all backgrounds and professions. Many of them are scientists, teachers, lawyers, and doctors. They are united in thought and action. They do not engage in warfare or politics and they do not break any laws. Furthermore, they are among the most persecuted people in history, being among the first groups of people to be herded into Hitler's concentration camps.
Stalin may not have believed in evolution but, Hitler most certainly did. The book “Milestones of History“ noted that “Darwinian ideas formed an integral part of Hitler’s doctrine of racial superiority.”
I, and others like me are also free to believe in what we want. No-one forced me to believe what I do. I once believed in evolution. Knowledge and experience (not miracles and emotions) convinced me otherwise.
You say that Atheists do not have special days where they have to dress a certain way or go to a certain place. Don't you have to work then? Don't you have to attend someone's birthday party, whether you like them or not? Don't you have to dress in black for a funeral and attend a place of worship? Do you celebrate Christmas and spend inordinate amounts of money on it and decorate your home and send out bundles of greetings cards to people you never see? Please, do not patronise us. My wife goes to her Kingdom Hall because she wants to, because she gets encouragement and support there, because she wants to share her faith with others.
You claim that “Atheists do not disagree on atheism.” I disagree. Ask three atheists how the world began and you will get three different answers. Ask them what the future holds and they will again debate it.
To be agnostic means that someone has yet to be convinced of the existence of God. Is the scientist who is not convinced of the existence of Black Holes an indecisive fool?
As I mentioned before, you have the wrong definition of Faith. Let me give you the original, correct definition, from the Bible;
“Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen.” The Greek language used for this carries the thought of a legal assurance, like possessing the deed to a property. You know that the property belongs to you but you have to wait to inhabit it. Neither the writer, nor any seriously religious person today believes in God without genuine cause and evidence. some fluffy religious people have claimed “For those without faith, no explanation is possible, for those with faith, no explanation is necessary.” What utter drivel! That completely goes against everything the Bible says. By the way, God does NOT work in mysterious ways!
Of course people fear death, and pain, and loss but, that does not mean they will invent lies to avoid those things. The idea is ridiculous! The Apostle Paul, talking about the physical resurrection wrote - ““If Christ has not been raised up, our preaching is certainly in vain, and our faith is in vain. If Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless.” Do those words sound like those of a deluded coward to you?
Incidentally, atheists can't have it both ways, that religious people are weak cowards who are afraid of dying, yet are also obsessive zealots who are willing to die for a fantasy!
For the record, the Bible says that when we die, we are finished and we go back to the ground. The Bible does not teach that humans have an immortal soul or that God burns people in Hell, these are pagan doctrines adopted by the churches to manipulate the masses.
“Pointing to a tree or an insect” is a valid demonstration of complexity and design but, real religion goes far beyond that. It is a shame that atheists refuse to concede the obvious, namely that these things do require design but, never mind, we can put up with their obstinacy!
Your next line is offensive. You dismiss all thinking that does not comply with your own saying “Of course to anyone else that actually is capable of intelligent thought.” As I have already informed you, many world-renowned scientists believe in God, partly due to the complexity and order of nature and the universe. I think they are “capable of intelligent thought” don't you?! You sound like your Master, Mr Dawkins, who incidentally, is not convincing at all and makes serious errors in some of his weak arguments.
Science and reason place the burden of proof on the atheist. The laws of physics testify overwhelmingly to the existence of an intelligent designer. I'm sure you would agree that there can be only one fact in a matter? Regarding life, would you agree that the universe and life were created? The question is - by something or someone? If physics eliminates something as a possible cause, there is only one option left (unless you have a tooth fairy up your sleeve?) Along with the abundant evidence in nature and physics is the Biblical evidence, which I am certain you are not aware of. Since I have read through, and responded to your lengthy article, perhaps you would do me the courtesy of reading some of my articles on the Bible's credibility? Or are you afraid of considering alternative evidence and knowledge?
Although you are correct about the corruption of the churches and Constantine's meddling, you are misinformed about the Bible Canon. The Hebrew Canon was already set, centuries before Christ was born. The books you refer to were never considered part of the Canon of the complete Bible because most of them weren't even in existence when the Hebrew Canon was sealed! The council presided over in the fourth century was simply a formality, simply confirming the existing Canon. The books you refer to were always discredited and never included. They did not bear the hallmarks of divine backing, as the other books did, and they did not originate from Jesus or His Apostles. Regarding future manipulative writings, the Bile itself warned that God would severely judge anyone who “:Makes an addition to these things.”
People do have a problem with the “One true religion” thing, don't they?!
If you think about it though, it is logical.
All religions disagree, some violently. Therefore they cannot all be true.
So the key is to identify which is true or false -How? By comparing their activities and teachings to those set down by God. Jesus said “By their fruits you will know them” and that “Most are on the road leading to destruction.” So what are God's teachings and standards?
The Bible is the oldest religious work in the world. It is also the only book with internal evidence of divine authorship. That being the case, what are the standards of religion defined in the Bible?
Warfare and violence is forbidden for Christians - That rules out most of Christendom's religions straight away, as well as most other religions. Christians are urged to speak God's name and spread his message of peace and hope (“Hallowed be thy name.” “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth”).
God's people are warned against involvement in politics or superstition. Again that rules out most religious organizations in the world!
As you can see, the list gets shorter and shorter … until only one comparatively small group remains. And they have the truth – according to the Holy Bible, just as Jesus foretold “Few will be the ones finding the path to life.”
Regarding “Free Will”, once again you have been spoonfed the world's version of the meaning of the term, not the Biblical one! Free will means just what it implies, the ability to choose your path, along with the benefits or consequences of that choice. The Bible does not teach that God sees all futures or all decisions in advance but, on the contrary, God pleads with humans “If only you would listen to my commandments, then your peace would become like a river.” When Abraham was spared the prospect of sacrificing His son, God said “NOW I do know that you are faithful.” Jesus could have failed in his temptations, otherwise they would not have been genuine temptations. Yes, God can see future events but he does not map out people's lives in advance, giving them the illusion of choice. Fate is a concept of pagans and Islam
I fully understand your scepticism about miracles. In fact, I share it! I find the modern claims of miracles quite nauseating. And you are absolutely right that, it is offensive for someone to claim a personal miracle in their life, when millions of not-so-fortunate people do not get divine intervention. But, once again, religions are to blame for misrepresenting the Bible and God. The Bible says that God did perform miracles at certain times when he had dealings with the Israelites in the past but that, once the Apostles died, those miracles would cease. You might find my article called “Miracles – Real or Fake?” enlightening.
You say that there must have been something before God. But just because the human mind cannot conceive of eternity or nothingness, it does not mean that God does not exist, that is not scientific logic. The fact is that, while science can offer no explanation for the origin of the universe, the Bible can. It describes two distinct lifeforms, “Flesh” and “Spirit.” The latter is of a completely different substance from the former and is not confined by the laws of physics, any more than a computer programmer is confined by his computer. Scientist pride themselves on being able to formulate ideas and stretch their imagination into the unknown, yet they stumble at a concept of eternity and Spirit life. Many critics of the Bible scoff at the idea of spirit lifeforms which transcend the physical universe, yet are quite happy to believe in alternate universes, time travel and alien lifeforms that consist purely of energy, none of which have the slightest shred of evidence. The inconsistency is not on the part of the theist but the atheist.
So, I have responded to your article, maybe not to your satisfaction. However I hope I have convinced you that there is more to these issues than you may have thought and that not all religious people are gullible children without intelligence.
I would be pleased if you would now consider some of my articles, which are considerably shorter than yours, my friend.
I wish you well.
Moomin |
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